Husband and wife team Joachim Martillo and Karin Friedemann have combined once again in order to give Taming Korach more material. In an article on her Friedemann's site, Israel Steals Palestinian Heritage, History she incorrectly assumes:
In English to use the word Jew is anachronistic before the 10th centuryThis is not true. In The Book Of Esther, which took place some 2500 years ago and was recorded for sure several thousand years ago, the word Jew is mentioned seven times. In one case:
The Book Of Esther-Chapter 3Talk about getting history wrong! These are the amateurish mistakes that are typical of the Friedemann/Martillo combo. The common thread that joins their sites is the complete refutation of Zionism coupled with an utter lack of understand of Rabbinical Judaism (in this case simply the Writings). How can one who makes such sensational accusations be taken seriously when they are based on incorrect facts sugar-coated with flowery writing styles?
Now it came to pass, when they spoke daily to him, and he did not listen to them, that they told Haman, to see whether Mordecai’s words would stand; for he had told them that he was a Jew.
ספר אסתר פרק ג
ויהי באמרם \{כאמרם\} אליו יום ויום ולא שמע אליהם ויגידו להמן לראות היעמדו דברי מרדכי כי הגיד להם אשר הוא
The article does on to say:
In Facts on the Ground Columbia Professor Nadia Abu Al Haj writes, "In the context of Israel and Palestine, archaeology emerged as a central scientific discipline because of the manner in which colonial settlement was configured in a language of, and a belief in, Jewish national return." Even though asserting ownership to a country after absence of 2000 years is preposterous, Israel's theft of Palestine from the native population is popularly legitimised through the claim that today's Jews descend from inhabitants of Greco-Roman Judea.Preposterous? Kind of like Christians and Muslims who decided to annex and mutilate Jewish scriptures and embellish them with utter lies? Talk about occupation! This is the mother of all copyright violations! Muslims know damn well that the Land of Israel belongs to the Jews. Why was the Land uncultivated for thousands of years-barren? Why was the Western Wall made into a garbage dump under Muslim occupation? Is their a statue of limitations on occupation? The occupation will only end when Jews return to Judaism and reclaim their ancient Land. If the Jewish claims on the Land of Israel are absurd, than why to Muslims, in particular, cite figures like King David who conquered the Land and made war with "Arabs" of his time?
Sands comments
Sand admits, "[The] chances that the Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Judaic people are much greater than the chances that you or I [meaning Israeli Jews] are its descendents."are equally idiotic because the word Palestinian was taken from the Hebrew "Plishtim," a group of non-Jewish Semites who lived in the South of Israel some 3,000 years ago. The Romans, in an attempt to erase the Jewishness of the Land of Israel, called Israel "Palestine." This has been the status quo, the Roman Occupation, for roughly 2,000 years. If the Palestinians are the actual Jews להבדיל, then where is their Torah? Blowing themselves up and using their children as shields is akin to the sacrificing of children done by pre-Arab idolaters recorded in the Torah:
Leviticus (18:21)Nothing has changed in the Middle East in 3,500 years. You have Jews and the maniacs around them. Perhaps the only exception is that now the are maniacs writing about us as well-even some from amongst us.
And you shall not let any of your seed pass through the fire to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the Lord.
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Responses to Ethnic Ashkenazim Against Zionist Israel are provided in the comments section.
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9 comments:
ThorsProvoni-part 1
http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2009/05/khaleejtimes-israel-steals-palestinian.html#idc-container
I run EAAZI. It has the mission to provide Jews and non-Jews with intellectual tools to stand up to Zionist intimidation and manipulation.
The Geary passage above points out that ethnic and national names are often reused.
As a consequence, translations of ancient texts can be misleading.
Biblical scholars have long asked whether ioudaios of the Greek Gospels should be translated as Jew, e.g., Was Jesus a Jew? Was Aristotle a Greek-American? Translating "Ioudaios".
Harvard Professor Shaye Cohen argues that Jewishness does not begin until the fourth century CE while Paul Wechsler prefers to identify the 12th century as the starting point on linguistic grounds.
I see the origin in the 10th century with the work of Saadya Gaon with qualification that Saadya preferred the term muwahhid (meyahed) to yahudi (yehudi).
I would translate yehudi in the Book of Esther as Jehudite, which is distinguished from pre-exilic Judahite and Greco-Roman Judean.
Both Christianity and Islam crystallize before Rabbinic (and Karaite) Judaism and certainly have equal or greater claim to descent from 2nd Temple Judaism than Medieval Judaism does.
Orthodox and Syrian Christianity have strong resemblance to elite 2nd Temple Judaism while Islam is an evolution of popular 2nd Temple Judaism.
Already in the late 2nd or early 3rd century Talmudic Sages are fairly honest in admitting that their religious practice has little connection to 2nd Temple Judaism (TB Menuchot 29b).
Medieval Rabbinic Judaism developed to accommodate developing Jewish trade networks that first appeared in late antiquity and that persisted into the modern period.
ThorsProvoni-part 2
For centuries before the Roman Empire expanded into the Levant Egyptian and Akkadian used variants of Palestine (Peleshet and Pilastu) to refer to the territories ruled by the Hasmonean and Herodian dynasties.
The Greeks and the Romans both used Palestine for the whole region at before the death of Herod the Great (4 BCE) while Samarian/Samaritan inscriptions already call the entire terrority Eretz Plishtim well before the Bar Kokhba rebellion.
After the Herodian kingdom and succeeding ethnarchies or tetrarchies fell into anarchy, the Romans created a Palestinian administrative district that covered a slightly larger territory than the various Judaic kingdoms.
Both the Hasmoneans and the Herodians supported proselytization because it benefited the royal treasury and because the King of the Judeans was inherently more important in world politics than the King of Judea.
By the time of Jesus the term Judean is already losing ethnic and territorial significance, and Dio Cassius mentions in the 2nd century that the term Judean had neither ethnic nor territorial meaning.
The Romans probably called the administrative district Palestine because by the 2nd century only Palestine had clear territorial meaning. They definitely had no intention of erasing Jewishness because Jewishness did not even exist at that time period as Shaye Cohen, Jacob Neusner, Seth Schwartz, Paul Wexler and I have all concluded.
The Western Wall was hardly a garbage dump under Muslim rule but was revered as the site where Muhammad tethered his miraculous steed Buraq for the night journey to Jerusalem. When ethnic Ashkenazim began their invasion of Palestine, they found all the cultivatable land under cultivation.
Muslims cite David because he is a prophet of the Quran while the Arabs of "David's time" were hardly the ancestors of all modern Arabs any more than Palestinian Judeans were the ancestors of modern Jews.
Quran is the Arabic form of Mikra, which Ezra uses to refer to scripture. Approximately, 1/3 of the Quran recapitulates a large part of the Hebrew Bible while about 1/4 shares material with Christian scripture.
The Hebrew Bible provides the example of Samson, who brings down the Philistine Temple, when he is blinded and has no more hope.
By American history and precedent, Palestinian terrorism directed against state sponsored violent racism is admirable like that of John Brown.
In comparison with sabotage, target assassinations, revolutionary violence, mass murder, ethnic cleansing, and genocide of ethnic Ashkenazim over the last 150 years, Palestinian terrorism is reasonably targeted.
Palestinian terrorism cannot be faulted by American standards and should be considered heroic.
"As a consequence, translations of ancient texts can be misleading."
Yes-kind of like what Christians did with the "Bible."
"Biblical scholars"
Biblical scholars are NOT Torah scholars. You don't point that out. The Torah was meant to be the cure for the "inclination to do evil" not an academic exercise.
בבא בתרא ט"ז-א
"Jewishness does not begin.."
What the hell is Jewishness? Is that when you watch Seinfeld while drinking pork soda? Is that reading Moment magazine? Sanheriv dispersed 10 of the 12 tribes and the remainder eventually mixed (except Levim and Cohenim to some degree).
"I would translate yehudi..."
This is mental masturbation. This says nothing, Martillo.
"Both Christianity and Islam crystallize before.."
Christianity was the invention of the Church. It was still being developed in 325 with the First Council of Nicaea. The Mishna, the basis of Rabbinical Judaism and the Oral Law that was (eventually) complied, in finality, in 200. Mohammad was born in 570! You want to explain this?
"Orthodox and Syrian Christianity have strong resemblance.."
Resemble doesn't mean equal. Jacob and Esav were twins but they didn't act like it. Amalek was also a Semitic tribe. Kiddusah (designated) and kidesha (prostitute) have the same root but different meanings.
"Already in the late 2nd or early 3rd century"
Yes, and the 2nd Temple wasn't like the 1st Temple! What's the point? The shchina (Divine presence) has left the building. The fact that the Talmud was written down was a profound concession (Kerem Yehoshua-Rabbi Yehoshua Cohen)-the Oral Torah was supposed to be infinite.
"the Romans created.."
The Romans destroyed. Talking about Roman creativity is an oxymoron. What about the Temple vessels? Where are Marillo and Silverstein and all the other baby-boomer socialist-humanists? Why don't you hold Rome responsible for stealing other people's prize possessions?
"By the time of Jesus"
Yeshu (Sotah 47a) was the student of Joshua ben Perachya (Nasi 140 BCE-100 BCE). The Gemara records this and so being a Jew I don't believe the Christian account that he lived several hundreds of years later.
"The Romans probably called the administrative district Palestine because"
Nonsense. Just like Shechem was renamed "Nablus," which is the Arabic pronunciation of Naples! They did it on purpose. Pax romana (Roman "peace") meant crushing and silencing (pax is quiet) opposition to their occupation.
"Jewishness did not even exist"
Again-this is semantics-"Jewishness" in this case means the Nation Of Israel-the remnants of the Davidic Empire. It is well known that the Roman Titus reportedly refused to accept a wreath of victory, as he claimed there is "no merit in vanquishing people forsaken by their own G-d." THAT People is the people who we are talking about here. If you don't know who THOSE people are, then you have a bigger problem then my blog can fix! Listing the opinions of academics who don't have yirat shamam (fear of G-d) and don't keep even the basic commandments of the Torah is pointless-the *Torah is not in Heaven-it was meant to be worked out and observed in this world-it is not Platonic.
ספר כתב סופר על שמות פרק כח פסוק א*
"When ethnic Ashkenazim began their invasion.."
You forget that there was also a Yemenite aliyah in 1881. By the wishes of the Vilna Gaon, there was an aliyah of over 500 students between 1808 and 1812. The idea that the land was cultivated when they came was absolute bunk. The Torah scholars in Europe didn't want Jews coming to Israel to be farmers. Many people died of malaria and other diseases in the swampy Petach Tikva vicinity. The Land was far, far from cultivated. Mark Twain, in his visit to the area testified to this.
"any more than Palestinian Judeans were the ancestors of modern Jews."
Nonsense-the Torah was passed down and still is. Can you explain that? That is the one thing that Roman, Christianity and Harvard haven't managed to destroy.
"and genocide of ethnic Ashkenazim over the last 150 years..."
You have an obsession with this EA business. Are you a Jew? Were your parents? Is Ms. Friedemann? Be direct and honest. I tell you here that I am a convert and that I follow Sephardic minhag. Why don't you tell us Martillo? The biggest supporters (were Silverstein also flounders) of aggressive Israeli military operations are the Jews of Arabic countries! Are they Jews by your measure? They are the ones who compile Jewish law. You, like so many Ashkenazim are profoundly ignorant of authentic Torah Judaism and other Jewish ethnicities (the two problems go hand in hand). What is your Jewish educational background? Not Orthodox-I can already assume. Calling yourself an EA is a logical contradiction. If you are part of the same group of "invaders" then why should we trust your opinion? Are you not equally flawed?
"Palestinian terrorism cannot be faulted by American standards and should be considered heroic."
This is a disgusting statement. Even if you feel that Israel is entirely wrong, it shows more about you than it does about the situation. I have a feeling that your "collaboration" with Friedemann is the modern day Ahab/Jezebel. One leads the other astray. Wishing violence upon others Jews is a spiritual sickness-and if you are not a Jew by halacha then you should be spared no mercy for condoning violence against us. For someone who can't seem to determine who a Jew is, you seem to make up your mind quickly when it comes to inciting violence against THEM.
You have added in your response tons of extraneous information and comments. However, you don't show sources for your opinions like I do. Why not? Your "torah" is a Cargo Cult science, as Richard Feynman would say-bullshit.
Dude you are just another Jewish bigot. Nothing more, nothing less.
Anonymous: be more specific!
Why am I wrong when he is the one who is calling for violence against others? You want to explain that? People like Martillo are allowed to make wildly incorrect comments about Judaism and pass them off as the truth?
Martillo:
You were overinterpreting my comment. I almost always let everything go through. As far as I can tell intensedebate held up you comments because of foreign characters and the use of the word masturbate.
Well, Joachim Martillo now has a site where his lies can go unchallenged. Until recently, Mondoweiss blog allowed supporters of Israel to comment there. Now they are requiring registration and silently banning any dissenters. The range of opinion there now ranges from "Israel is the most evil country ever" to "Israel is evil, but not the most evil ever". So if you like your Israel bashing without any inconvenient facts spoiling things, Mondoweiss is the place to be. Of course, like with most echo chambers, be prepared to embarrass yourself if you post anything you get from there elsewhere.
Joachim Martillo writes mainly Cargo Cult Judaism and has no real understanding of his own religion. Silverstein himself has stated that he had a conservative education. I would assume the same for many of these pot-bellied middle-aged anti-Israel bloggers. In their minds they are going a "mitzvah," but it instead reveals a Jew who understands secular politics but missed the boat Jewish-wise somewhere.
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